Dear Dr. Nalin Thanki,
Sorry for a delayed reply to your mail. I had to be out of station for some time and could not attend to my mails. I am fully in agreement with your views on Science that one can do good science without borrowing anything from Vedanta. But the following points remain as true:

A. Science can illuminate only a small part of the reality and it can never ever reveal the whole truth. If one is fully satisfied with this situation, further discussions are unnecessary.

B. Some basic inputs into science (the paradigm shifts) come from outside of sciene ( it could be vedatic ideas as well). Thus the concepts of simplicity, truth, beauty, symmetry, unification etc. are not of science itself but are the contributions from a wider percepective. Fully empirical things also are acceptabel as science, but human mind remain unsatisfied and seeks models with better 'values'

C. Human mind is at the root of everything and any understanding of this unique phenomenon in the universe will throw open much wider vistas on reality. Thus there is room for philosophy and vedanta which can accompany science if not within it. Von Neumann knew about this long ago and he has prooved a theorem in 1948 that an essential ingradient in any experimental system is the human conciousness without which the whole experimental set up is totally meaningless. This prompted J.D. Bradley to comment that "a universe simple enough to be understood by human mind is too simple to produce a mind which is able to understand it".
Science is not able to provide any satsfactory answer to the question "Why all these laws ?".Do they operate only in inert matter or can they affect more compex systems like human mind?
I agree that these questions are not of much relevance to operational part of science in a lab, but are of great importance to our undersatding of the universe and its functioning. Our ancient seers had clear ideas on these fundamental questions which have remained essentially the same in spite of the march of Science and Technology upto 21 st century. No one appears to have made any improvements to their original answers.
A profound and deep discussion on such matters in English is available from the writings of Sri Arabindo who himself was a great revolutionary. He accepts science and goes beyond it.
I may not have provided answers to your satisfaction, neverthless I have tried to point to you the directions in which one can try to seek answers. Best regards

GIRIJAVALLABHAN

Article sent by Dr.C.P.G. Vallabhan (vallabhan@vsnl.com)

PhysicsWeb (April)

Quantum physics says goodbye to reality

Reality is in the eye of the observer, experiment reveals

URL: http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/11/4/14/1

Comments: A good article on Q.M and reality!

Keep up-to-date with the latest news in the physics industry, subscribe to Physics World. For more information visit http://physicsweb.org/subscribe

Dear Professor GirijaVallabhan,
>
> I am a scientist and also a student of Vedanta. I recently came
> across your paper "Indian Influence in the Development of Quantum
> Mechanics" which I found informative and fascinating. I was writing
> to ask a question. Currently I'm interested in doing some research on
> the slightly broader question of the influence of Eastern philosophy
> on Western science (in general). I wanted to ask whether you are
> familiar with other examples of this stream from east to west in the
> realm of science. You mentioned Oppenheimer and, of course, David
> Bohm was very influenced by Krishnamurti. If you have the time could
> you point me in the direction of other examples? Thanks for any help
> you can give.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Robin Weeks
>
> Affiliate Assistant Professor
> Earth and Space Sciences
> University of Washington,
> Seattle.

Dear Dr. Robin Weeks,
Thank you very much for your mail. I am very happy to learn about your interest in Science and Vedanta. I am glad that you could appreciate my article on Indian influence in the development of Q.M. Your interest in the broader theme of influence of Eastern Philosopy in modern science is certaily a worth while one. This aspect has been discussed nicely in the recent book "Doubt and Certainty" by Tony Rothman and George Sudarshan (Persues Books, USA, 1998). In my opinion the concept of Unified Field Theory is nothing but the "Advaitha Philosophy" of 7th Centuary Indian Seer, Adi Sankara. I will be glad to be in touch with to discuss more on this. Best Regards

Dr.C.P.GIRIJAVALLABHAN
Director, CELOS &
Dean, Faculty of Technology
Cochin University of Science & Technology
Cochin 682022
Tel: 91 484 2577540(O), 91 484 2346869(R)

Dear Professor GirijaVallabhan,
>>
>> I am a scientist and also a student of Vedanta. I recently came
>> across your paper "Indian Influence in the Development of Quantum
>> Mechanics" which I found informative and fascinating. I was writing
>> to ask a question. Currently I'm interested in doing some research
>> on the slightly broader question of the influence of Eastern
>> philosophy on Western science (in general). I wanted to ask whether
>> you are familiar with other examples of this stream from east to west
>> in the realm of science. You mentioned Oppenheimer and, of course,
>> David Bohm was very influenced by Krishnamurti. If you have the time
>> could you point me in the direction of other examples? Thanks for
>> any help you can give.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Robin Weeks
>>
>> Affiliate Assistant Professor
>> Earth and Space Sciences
>> University of Washington,
>> Seattle.

Dear Dr. Robin Weeks,
> Thank you very much for your mail. I am very happy to learn about your
> interest in Science and Vedanta. I am glad that you could appreciate
> my article on Indian influence in the
> development of Q.M. Your interest in the broader theme of influence of
> Eastern Philosopy in modern science is certaily a worth while one.
> This aspect has been discussed nicely in the recent book "Doubt and
> Certainty" by Tony Rothman and George Sudarshan (Persues Books, USA,
> 1998).
> In my opinion the concept of Unified Field Theory is nothing but the
> "Advaitha Philosophy" of 7th Centuary Indian Seer, Adi Sankara.
> I will be glad to be in touch with to discuss more on this.
> Best Regards
>
> Dr.C.P.GIRIJAVALLABHAN
> Director, CELOS &
> Dean, Faculty of Technology
> Cochin University of Science & Technology
> Cochin 682022
> Tel: 91 484 2577540(O), 91 484 2346869(R)

Dear Dr Girijavallabhan:
>
> Thank you for including me in your email distribution - I appreciate
> this.
>
> I graduated from King's College in Electronics with honors and have a
> reasonably good understanding of QM but I am not a postgraduate
> student of QM however I am keenly interested in it.
>
> My first email to you explained my doubts about linking it to Vedanta.
>
> I would appreciate your help in how and where my thinking stops being
> rational. I have been trained as a scientist to be first and foremost
> a rationalist - Karl Popper being the guiding light much more than any
> other.
>
> Abdus Salam - a devout Muslim and with Nobel Prize in Physics 1979 -
> cannot claim, unless he can prove, that his discoveries in Nuclear
> Physics proves certain aspects of Islam. Or can he?
>
> Please enlighten.
>
> I would like to believe as you do but as it is I can not. Please show
> where my thinking is faulty.
>
> Thanks.
>
> === Nalin.

Dear Dr. Nalin,
Thank you very much for your mail and for enlightening me on your background. I did not want to respond directly to your criticism of my article on Q.M., but just wanted you to know how others view the facts presented in the same. Regarding your doubts, I would like to assure you that there is nothing faulty with your thinking. I was exactly in your stage of thinking 40 years ago! However your curiosity to know as to where one has gone wrong itsef is a very encouraging sign in your search for greater truth. Your questions have opened up the vast arena of philosphy of science which we cannot discuss fully in e mail sessions. I can point out to you other sources which answer your questions. for a begining kindly read the book by Sir Arthur Eddigton- 'Philosophy of Physical Science',Ann Arbor paper backs(1967). He was not a Hindu but arrives at the same conclusions as our ancient seers.(Incidentlly, I am not referring to any specific religion, organized or otherwise). Simple minded rationalism is correct but it is a tunnel vision; that is why Karl Popper has a limited validity. No QM or relativity will arise with Karl Popper. Nor would there be entanglemet, teleportation, dark mattter or dark energy and ultimately no conciousness either! I shall forward to you in a separate mail the English version of an interview which I did for a local language magazine. This is on a book by Sir Roger Penrose "The Road to Reality- A Complete Guide to the Laws of the Universe". If you have the patience to read it, the last part will clarify where you stand in your perception of reality. Every one is right about what they see; but to see the larger truth one should invariably open up more windows!

Best regards

Girijavallabhan

Quantum Mechanics - Indian Influence? - Part 1

Introduction:

I have come accorss, both in print and in person, quite a number of Indian scientists and other learned Indians who maintain in effect that the Quantum Mechanics was first discovered by the Indians and/or that its findings were first thought of by them.

In the next few articles I will try to show that this is more a wishful thinking than the truth. The best that can be said about this is that some of the abstract thoughts of Quantum Mechanics happen to have some resemblance to some of the Indian Philosophy but note that this is not the same as Indian Science, as it did not exist at the sophisticated level required to deal with QM. But in any case, none of these have been proved to be true by any empirical proofs carred out in India.

I intend to show, in brief, the aspects of modern Quantum Mechanics that the Indians maintain that they first thought of and if so whether there is any historical proof of them having done so, and more importantly, proved to be so.

I intend to start with the history of QM and then show which aspects are similar to some of the Indian Philosophical notions.


Early History of Quantum Mechanics:

Islamic Resurgence - Part 3

INTRODUCTION:

This is the third and final part of my Blog on Islamic Resurgence. I will have nothing more to say on this topic after that. I am researching to write about Quantum Mechanics with special reference to Hinduism - I know more about both of them than I did about Islam when I started the first Blog. However I promise to respond to any communique on Islam sent to me by the readers.

In Part 2 I talked about the three main reformers in Islam and stated the importance of the Modernists amongst them. They alone, in my view, are capable to turning rich Islamic countries into real world powers. How they can do this and what they must do to achieve it is part of this essay.

I shall also express freely my views about what they must refrain from doing to achieve their aim. At the risk of angering some diehard muslims I will have unpalatable ideas to express on the topics of fatwa, jihad and the use of terrorist attacks on the West. These three, either individually or together, will never help the cause of Islamic resurgence - and I shall explain each one separtately.

FATWA:

I am no mufti but my understanding gleaned from reading about this is as follows:

This is an authoritative ruling on a point of Islamic law given by a mufti or Islamic leader. Sunni Muslims would favor a Sunni fatwa whereas Shiite would follow a Shi'a one. There exists no international Islamic authority to settle fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence)issues today, in a legislative sense. Fatwa is only binding on its author and individuals are free to accept them or not. "In Sunni Islam, a fatwa is nothing more than an opinion. It is just a view of a mufti and is not binding in India." ― Maulana Mehmood Madani, president of the Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-Hind [4]

This implies that an individual carrying out the fatwa needs to apply his/her own rational thinking as to whether he/she thinks it is moral to carry it out. The word has never been mentioned in Koran.

We know that fataawa do not work - people involved in the cases shown below are still alive and well. Non-Islamic world will not toletate it and most of them are morally wrong:

According to the religious edict issued by Rashad Hassan Khalil, a former dean of Al-Azhar University's faculty of Sharia (or Islamic law), "being completely naked during the act of coitus annuls the marriage".

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in 1989 pronounced a death sentence on Salman Rushdie, the author of The Satanic Verses.

Yusuf al-Qaradawi released a fatwa on April 14th 2004, stating that the boycott of American and Israeli products was an obligation for all who are able.

Sheik Sadeq Abdallah bin Al-Majed, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Sudan, issued a fatwa that prohibits vaccination of children claiming it is a conspiracy of the Jews and Freemasons.[3][4]

Indian Muslim scholars issued a fatwa of death against Taslima Nasreen, an exiled controversial Bangladeshi writer. Majidulla Khan Farhad of Hyderabad-based Majlis Bachao Tehriq issued the fatwa at the Tipu Sultan mosque in Kolkata after Juma prayers as saying Taslima has defamed Islam and announced “unlimited financial reward” to anybody who would kill her. [5]

These three articles are directed towards muslims who want an Islamic Resurgence.
To this end Fatwa does not help our cause.

JIHAD:

In Islam it means a holy war and unlike the fatwa it is mentioned in the Koran many times. According to OERD "A jihad may be undertaken to defend Islam against external threats or to spread the religion among non-believers; effort or exertion in the cause of God. Prosecution of a jihad when summoned is prescribed as a religious duty by the Koran and by tradition."

For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power. In Muslim tradition, the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islamic Peace (Dar al-Salam), in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails, and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited and, more important, ruled by infidels. The presumption is that the duty of jihad will continue, interrupted only by truces, until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule. Those who fight in the jihad qualify for rewards in both worlds—booty in this one, paradise in the next. For most of the recorded history of Islam, from the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad onward, the word jihad was used in a primarily military sense.

Implications of all this is that jihad only works in your favaour if you are stronger or soon likely to be stronger than your opponents or your adversaries are in imminent decline.

We need to face the reality. At present Israel alone can defeat all its neighbours put together - in each war she has extended her boundries. Israel is a fait accompli - the West and especially the USA will not never let it be obliterated no matter how much Iran and the rest of the muslim world waould love to do so. For this to happen the Islamic Resurgence needs to be so extensive as to make the muslim countries as a group to be the new super power in the world. Would this be morally right?

Anyway, the main thrust of this essay is to achieve Islamic resurgence and to that end it appears to me that Jihad has not been helpful and is never likely to be. It appears to me that Jihad has killed more muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq than the enemy. Muslims need to accept that the West will never be intimidated by Jihad - they have fought two World Wars, dominated most of the world and is still dominating it, both, militarily and economically. If the muslims cannot scare even Israel they are not really scaring the USA and the West. The three put together are dectating the events in the Middle East.

The Fatwa and the Jihad are the stratagies that have failed so far and will not succeed against the West. Muslims need to be economically and militarily as strong as the West to be an effective voice towards their own destiny. In my view there is no other way.

The Talibans:

The Taliban's reclusive supreme leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar, has imposed the world's strictest form of Islam on the people of Afghanistan. Music, television, cinema and most forms of entertainment have been banned. Teaching Christianity is punishable by death. Severe restrictions on women's access to health care and education also have been imposed. Women must be covered from head to toe when outside their homes. One woman, who was convicted of killing her abusive husband, was executed publicly by rifle. In March 2001, the world recoiled as the Taliban destroyed non-Islamic religious statues such as centuries-old giant Buddhas.

In light of the Taliban's role in harboring bin Laden, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates have renounced all diplomatic ties with Afghanistan's rulers. Only Pakistan now maintains formal relations with the Taliban.

Let us be realistic, the Talibans will never bring about Islamic Resurgence.

AL-QAEDA:

It is an international alliance of militant Sunni jihadist organizations. Al-Qaeda's objectives include the end of foreign influence in Muslim countries and the creation of a new Islamic caliphate. For this to be achieved they need the wherewithals - not just the money; they also need supremacy in science, technology and engineering. This is precisely what they have not got and unlikely to ever get and hence they are are a spent force and will never ever bring the West to their knees.

Theirs is not the way to bring about real resurgence of Islam.

TERRORIST ATTACKS:

Consider the following facts about WW1 and WW2:

During the summer and fall of 1914, France lost as many men on the battlefield as the U.S.Army would lose in all of the 20th century!

Russia's losses were never actually counted. It is estimated that over 6 million Russian soldiers were killed in WWI.

During World War One, 230 soldiers perished for each hour of the four and a quarter years it continued.

There were 70,000,000 men and women in uniform of that number one-half were either killed, wounded or became prisoners of war.

In Great Britian at the end of the war there were 250,000 wounded soldiers who suffered total or partial amputation.

The Spanish Influenza of 1918 killed 51 million people worldwide!

The U.S. was in the war in actual combat for only seven and a half months. During this time 116,000 were killed and 204,000 were wounded.

In 1916 in the Italian Alps a winter avalanche killed 10,000 men. In four years of conflict on the Italian Alpine Front 50,000 soldiers killed by avalances.

During the course of the Great War 11% of Frances's entire population was killed or wounded.

The biggest naval battle in history occurred off the coast of Jutland in the afternoon of May 31, 1916. More than 200 warships and 100,000 men of the rival navies were involved. The British "Grand Fleet" lost 14 ships. The German "High Seas Fleet" lost 11 ships.

The 10 month Battle of Verdun, 1916 caused over a million casualties.

Italian Front:

60,000 Alpine troops would freeze to death in the "high mountains" (Dolomiti Adamello ranges) during 3 years of war.

WORLD WAR 2:

The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II was roughly 72 million people. The civilian toll was around 47 million, including about 20 million due to war related famine and disease. The military toll was about 25 million, including the deaths about 5 million prisoners of war in captivity. The Allies lost around 61 million people, and the Axis lost 11 million.

COROLLARY of all this is that the West is used to great losses for the cause they believe in and the terrorist attacks of killing a few thousands here and there is never going to deter the West from taking on the Muslims especilly when they are so week as at present.

So it seems clear to me that the use of Terrorist Attacks will only compound the faith of the West that they must always dominate the Muslims!

The only way to have any say towards ones destiny is to be as strong and powerful as your opponent.

The rest of this final part deals with my views about how the rich muslim countries can plan to be close to being superpowers.